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Anybody being driven crazy with Ford's 2-piece spark plugs on the Triton 5.4?


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#1 Saltmine

 
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:17 PM

The new Motorcraft spark plug for the 5.4 Triton engine, the MC SP507 platinum plug, replaces the old plug, PZT14F. The SP507 is one piece and has a little more durability. The design prevents fouling at low engine speeds, and is self-cleaning at high engine speeds. The old PZT14F was designed in two pieces, and would have a tendency to break off in the head due to carbon buildup on the seat. The newer plug tends to be more durable in the torque stress. The lack of carbonization buildup with the newer model aids in removing used spark plugs. This spark plug was made for the Ford owner who wants to stick with original equipment. And, they only retail for $18.98 apiece.

The two-piece plug is still available from Autolite, but they claim to have redesigned it to run hotter to prevent carbonization and fouling during low speed operation.
This hotter operating temperature is supposed to make them easier to remove when the time comes.
Sam Will
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#2 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:48 PM

There are a few different problems with thease spark plugs. One, the replacement schedule. When one puts a steel spark plug into an aluminum head, good luck trying to get it out at 50K. Let alone @ 100K. Throw in a little Chicago road salt, and it becomes a permanent resident.

The retards at Ford, who wrote the TSB to use their special brand of never seize, somehow STILL have not given the knuckle draggers on their very own assembly line the memo. What is up with this? After all thease years, i still get reman engines From Ford with NO never seize on any of the spark plugs. Every engine i have gotten, and i have forgotten the number, i have to pull the spark plugs and goop them up.

Who cares what the bloody heat range is? Leaving the sparks plugs in too long, and under thease conditions, is causing a lot of the issues right off.

No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
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#3 JDTECH

 
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

WTF is Fords problem? First they design a engine that the plugs blow out of and now the redesign it so the plug won't come out. I work on all makes & models, no other manufacture has this problem? The only times I have had a hard time removing plugs on vehicles besides Ford it when some loob boob ran them in with a impact.

#4 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

WTF is Fords problem? First they design a engine that the plugs blow out of and now the redesign it so the plug won't come out. I work on all makes & models, no other manufacture has this problem? The only times I have had a hard time removing plugs on vehicles besides Ford it when some loob boob ran them in with a impact.


That because Ford= Shit

#5 scottimus

 
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:44 PM

plugs are the least of your worries with the triton engine. i think ford won some award for how loud cam phasers can rattle. ford produces shit, plain and simple.

#6 ok44

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:01 AM

I think many factory recommendations are total crap. That would include leaving spark plugs in place for 100 miles or more, never changing automatic transmission fluid, and so on.

The plugs in my cars come out every 30 to 40k miles at most. This not only prevents freezing in the threads but I like to keep tabs on compression and eyeball the plugs to see how they're burning.

Just a few weeks ago I changed the plugs in my daughter's '05 Mustang with the 4.0 and I was even fretting over removing the plugs on that car. The plugs had about 40 something thousand miles on them and most of them had to he wrestled out; and anti-seize had been applied when I had changed them before.
There's no doubt in my mind that if those plugs were left in place for 100k miles they would have brought every thread out with them.

Aluminum and steel can do some funny things when they're been married for a while.

#7 PowerstrokeTech82787

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:06 AM

ha. ford redesigned something eh? Think its going to be better?

When ford gets their dickbeaters on something, they usually make it worse.... MUCH worse.

Just remember do not use rotundas plug extractor tool. Just buy an 85 dollar matco one that works 1000000x better.

And coat the plugs entirely. From the threads down.

Cam phaser failures, spark plug issues. Cats that plug up and back feed into the engine... oh theres a plethora of issues with the 5.4 3 valves...
Dave Didnt drive the longest lasting most dependable truck on the road... Dave drove a Ford. BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Ashes to ashes dust to dust. If it werent for Fords, My tools would rust.
Yep, Im a Chevy Guy that works on Fords Mainly diesels.
In the famous words of Jerry Reed. "Well Now Lord Mr Ford I just wish that you could see what your Simple Horseless Carraige has become. Well it seems your contribution to man To say the least got a little out of hand. Well Lord Mr Ford What Have You Done?!"

#8 Brimm

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:00 AM

The Lisle too which is what Matco sells is a great tool but sometimes you get one that is such a turd the old rotunda kit has to come out. I love the little pusher tool they made to shove the porcelian down far enough to use the screw in piece. I have however had the screw in piece pull out on several. At that point it is time to break out the old standby and use the tap to thread what is left of the plug and use the rotunda tool to remove the sleeve.

#9 Mike N

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:16 AM

Amazing someone can (four letter word) up something as simple as a spark plug.

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#10 Saltmine

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:24 AM

I find it a little disturbing. Before I retired, we had a fleet of 5.4 Expeditions. Every time I turned around, there was one in the shop that either needed plugs, or had blown one out.

And it's not that hard to figure out. Chrysler uses Chumpion plugs, that won't last 30K, so you have to change them. GM has it figured out. Their plugs easily last 100K and even in aluminum heads they come right out without a fight...My Impala is already half-way through it's second set of plugs (150K). It has aluminum heads and the hardest thing about changing the plugs on them is getting the spark plug boots off of the plugs. But, truth be known, GM doesn't hire engineers that hate mechanics.
Sam Will
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Mohave County Public Works
Kingman, Arizona
Retired

40 years of training....wasted.

#11 ok44

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:35 PM

I've made the comment to my wife many times over the years about wondering if the engineers head off to a local tavern after work on a Friday evening and sit around getting shit-faced drunk and yukking it up about the grief mechanics are going through while trying to sort out the crap that the engineers and clueless management dreamed up. ;-(

#12 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:09 PM

This kind of crap happens to all the makers. A friend of mine was dating an engineer at International Harvester years ago. She told us that they would design something, and then the bean counters would substitute and cheapen their designs. If any of you guys have ever wrestled a turbo off of a 466, you would know what i mean.

Last one i had to take the passenger side body mount off, jack that side up off the frame rail, to get it to clear and come out. So with Ford saving a few bucks here and there by putting in spark plugs dry, and letting the warranty expire before those plugs having to come out, well, no surprize here.

Another piss poor design is those nasty dual spark plugs in the Durango's. One set is platinum, the other set, standard. WTF? And they take a special thin walled 5/8 spark plug socket. After i had the pleasure of doing the first one, i took my old Craftsman socket to the ol' shop lathe. And turned it down 0.040. Now i can get it to clear, and use a wobble extension. Instead of bending the crap out of the brake lines like i did on the prior repair.

No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
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#13 Brimm

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:28 PM

Just did a tune-up on an 06 this morning. Tried to get the new motocraft plugs. Not available yet. Looked at everything they had and here I find out the E3 plugs are a one piece lower assembly welded together right in the middle of the hex. Truck had 150k+ on it. I got on it about 5 minutes after it showed up and got to the plugs in another five with pulling all the coils. Did the impact trick and got 6 out without them breaking. The two that broke were on the Pass side first and third plugs. 10 minutes with the Lisle tool and they were both out. Made 200 bucks on that tune-up. Not bad for less than an hours work including the run to the parts store. Of course the last one had every one snap on me. Job still took less than two hours on that one.

#14 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:20 PM

Just did a tune-up on an 06 this morning. Tried to get the new motocraft plugs. Not available yet. Looked at everything they had and here I find out the E3 plugs are a one piece lower assembly welded together right in the middle of the hex. Truck had 150k+ on it. I got on it about 5 minutes after it showed up and got to the plugs in another five with pulling all the coils. Did the impact trick and got 6 out without them breaking. The two that broke were on the Pass side first and third plugs. 10 minutes with the Lisle tool and they were both out. Made 200 bucks on that tune-up. Not bad for less than an hours work including the run to the parts store. Of course the last one had every one snap on me. Job still took less than two hours on that one.


Sounds like you got lucky.

Regardless, Simple maintenance shouldn't turn into nightmares. It'll take Ford at least another 5 years to actually fix the issue and have a decent design for spark plugs. Theyre also going to need a lesson on simplicity. Quality is in simplicity and Ford has a LONG way to go.


#15 ok44

 
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:27 AM

Like most car makers though, Ford may get around to curing one problem and creating two more. Personally, I like my Fords but there are maintenance procedures that I would love to see an engineer on national TV explain and give a legitimate reason why they did this or that.

Why in the hell do they put fuel filters on the Lincoln Mark VIIIs inside the right front fender and vice-versa on the Lincoln LS?
After eyeballing the car over from stem to stern I can see no reason in the world why the filters could not have been located in front of the RR wheel or against the floor pan up front.
Another question might be why they use 2 different retaining clips on filters; one end has the hairpin clip and the other end a Spring Lock clip requiring the special tool.
Maybe there's some obscure reason for this that I don't see but it appears to lack any common sense.

#16 PowerstrokeTech82787

 
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:46 AM

Or why a ford focus has A/C hook ups under the cowl and behind the inner fender/splash sheild. Or a 6.4 you need to remove the air filter to get to the a/c port on the fire wall.... Then you have the 5.4 and 6.8 with manifold studs that break in the head requiring a welder, before you even attempt to remove the manifold studs allready broken, the manifold cracked, cheap quality.

This is why i will never own a ford. EVER. quality, there is none, the pile of shit is put together with NO room to work on them, how they are number 1 in truck sales i dont know especially after the disastrous effects of the 6.0 and 6.4, either there are alot of retards out there, or ford has a brain washing effect with their commercials that i am immune to...
Dave Didnt drive the longest lasting most dependable truck on the road... Dave drove a Ford. BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Ashes to ashes dust to dust. If it werent for Fords, My tools would rust.
Yep, Im a Chevy Guy that works on Fords Mainly diesels.
In the famous words of Jerry Reed. "Well Now Lord Mr Ford I just wish that you could see what your Simple Horseless Carraige has become. Well it seems your contribution to man To say the least got a little out of hand. Well Lord Mr Ford What Have You Done?!"

#17 Saltmine

 
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:15 PM

I remember when I was working at a dealer, and we had a factory engineer visiting that day, and somebody went off about something on a GM car that was just plain idiotic.
The factory engineer had worked with us before, and was pretty sharp.. He listened to the guy's rant, and agreed with the fellow. Then, he dropped the bomb. "What would you do in a situation like this?" he asked. The frustrated mechanic looked a bit confused, but came back saying," I'd drag the damned engineer that designed it this way out in the shop, and left him try to work on it."

Damned if it didn't happen..A week later, a GM engineer, wearing white coveralls, showed up at our dealership, and our buddy,the factory engineer, took him over to a car the guy had designed parts for, and put him to work. At the end of the day, the GM engineer was beat, battered, and dirty...but he went back to his office with a new understanding of what goes on in the shop. Our factory guy said they decided that the next time an engineer designs something that attracts a large number of complaints on it's design, they would get the same treatment.
Probably why GM cars & trucks are so much easier to work on than Fords.

If they did the same thing with Ford engineers, they would have to post an armed guard next to him to prevent the mechanics from murdering him.
Sam Will
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Mohave County Public Works
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#18 NCO

 
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:34 PM

Since we're on the subject of Ford.......

(apologies if this is off-topic, I know some forums go apeshit over that)

I bought a 2004 Ranger 3.0 5-speed from a fleet customer of ours in 2010. Paid cash, so at least no payments hanging over my head. This customer is "one of the good ones" as they say. Downright anal about maintaining their trucks (pest control company) right down to using Motorcraft synthetic blend oil. So I know it was well-taken care of before I bought it. And I take good care of mine as well. So can I expect any headaches out of this one?
Proud Oath Keeper and 3 Percenter!

#19 Saltmine

 
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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:08 AM

Simply signing onto the title of a Ford is a guarantee that you will have problems with it. If it's a regular 3.0 pushrod V-6, you should already know Ford sticks the heads on them with Scotch Tape & bubblegum. If they have been on the engine longer than a couple of years, they'll crack like a broken window if you even look at them wrong. If you're real lucky, you might be able to drive it long enough to save up enough money to fix it when it lays down. If the pest control company already poured half of the GNP of Poland into it, before you bought it, you might be able to run it, trouble free, long enough to save up for another truck...Transmissions are pretty good...unless it's equipped with that Japanese POS of a five-speed...Then those close ratio gears will keep getting farther and farther apart...'til it won't move anymore.

Don't plan on racing anybody with it, unless you like getting beaten by parked Daewoo's. For more horror stories, see Karrpilot...
Sam Will
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#20 Saltmine

 
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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:40 AM

I recently had an "AH, HA!" moment..about the spark plugs being difficult to remove, and how some guys are changing the plugs at 40-50 K so they won't weld themselves into the cylinder heads...Like Artie Johnson used to say on "Laugh-in"....Verrrrry Interesting....

It seems that it's not the fault of the spark plugs or the design that makes some engines almost impossible to remove plugs from, and others you can leave the plugs in for 200K and still twirl 'em out easily.

It's the formulation of the aluminum....in the heads. GM has a long history of working with aluminum and aluminum alloys. And, even though it costs a bit more, GM formulates an aluminum alloy that doesn't have a tendency to seize up on the spark plugs. They came by this quite accidentally when they were trying to make the aluminum castings come out of the dies easier, and get longer life from their tool bits for machining the parts. Silicon. Ford and Chrysler don't blend silicon into the alloy....GM does. That's why plugs easily come out of GM engines, and the other guys you have to worry about stripping out all of the threads when changing plugs.

I agree, using a good quality anti-seize compound helps, but when you pressure cast engine parts with gummy, poor quality aluminum, bad things will happen....
Sam Will
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Mohave County Public Works
Kingman, Arizona
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40 years of training....wasted.




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