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Help With Transmission

2008 Expedition Downshift

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#1 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:59 AM

I had my Expedition's transmission repaired twice for a squawk on downshift-once at 30K and the other at 58K. They performed This TSB
TSB 09-6-1

04/06/09
6R75 TRANSMISSION - SQUAWK NOISE DURING
POWER/FORCED DOWNSHIFT

FORD:
2007-2008 Expedition

This article supersedes TSB 08-19-8 to update the vehicle model years and remove the production fix date.
ISSUE
Some 2007-2008 Expedition vehicles equipped with a 6R75 transmission may exhibit a squawk type noise during hard acceleration down shifts (4-3), (5-3) and (6-3) downshifts. The noise is produced during the release of the overdrive clutch.

ACTION
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Follow Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-01B to replace the overdrive friction plates.
WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT : Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.

The problem is that it is happening again at 87K miles. Has there been an updated procedure on this? Doesn't seem right this needs to be fixed every 30K miles or so.

#2 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 14 September 2011 - 05:21 PM

Even replacement parts fail. But before i would tear into it, i would make sure the vehicle had the latest and greatest PCM file in it. Many times Ford has updates to their PCM's that include transmission shift stratagies, etc.

Also, even though the trans was repaired under warranty, i have seen trans guys just replace the TSB parts, and if that TSB did not include a transmission filter, the old one was put back in.

Sad, to say the least. But it does happen.

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#3 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:51 AM

Thanks for the reply. I will ask about the PCM update and the filter. Do you know how deep they have to tear into the tranny to replaced the friction plates?


. It just puzzles me that the fix is temporary. It's not like worn out brake pads, etc. A transmission having never towed anything and 80% of its miles are freeway shouldn't need the friction plates replaced every 30K miles.

#4 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 15 September 2011 - 05:00 PM

If the same part(s) have failed, the trans will need to come out for another tear down. You may get some assistance from Ford, considering you are having the same issue, and you have less than 100K and 5 years on the clock.

That seems to be their magic formula for customer assistance after the warranty has expired.

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#5 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:00 PM

Thanks.

#6 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:56 PM

Well I just heard back from the dealer. They got a response from Ford saying the squawk is now considered normal and replacing the friction plates does not stop the sound from coming back. They said the noise will not cause damage to the transmission.


What I get from this is they do not know how to stop this are done paying a tech to pull the trans apart to replace the plates, which will fail in a short amount of time. Complete BS. I now have a devalued truck becuase Ford doesn't know how to fix something.

#7 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:37 PM

Well I just heard back from the dealer. They got a response from Ford saying the squawk is now considered normal and replacing the friction plates does not stop the sound from coming back. They said the noise will not cause damage to the transmission.


What I get from this is they do not know how to stop this are done paying a tech to pull the trans apart to replace the plates, which will fail in a short amount of time. Complete BS. I now have a devalued truck becuase Ford doesn't know how to fix something.


Aren't engineering flaws great? Noises, leaks and MIL illuminations are perfectly normal on Fords. Do you have AAA or a good tow truck plan?

#8 wqhj861

 
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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:22 PM

this reminds me of the convertor shudder back when for the aode trans , first it was convertor replace , then the service with mercon 5 in the green bottle , then and now sometimes its the xl-3 modifier , just my opinion .

#9 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:10 PM

Aren't engineering flaws great? Noises, leaks and MIL illuminations are perfectly normal on Fords. Do you have AAA or a good tow truck plan?


Yeah. Here is a trans that makes a loud belt slipping squeal but since we have no idea how to fix it, it's 'normal' and won't hurt the tranny.

#10 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:38 PM

Can anyone here tell me the difference in these friction plate part numbers? The plates they replaced have had the part numbers changed and I am hoping it's a revision.

Old part number. 6L2Z-7B164-CA
New part number 6L2Z-7B164-D

Thanks.

#11 serious johnson

 
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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:03 AM

I had a hotline "engineer"tell me a part had "failed within limits" WTF??
Out Of The Business, And Damn Glad About It!!!

#12 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:28 PM

That's the problem with fords. When shit fails, they replace it with the same shit parts, then later on down the road do they actually improve them.

Bottom, line... Is this an annoyance issue, or a function issue? I'd wait until there is an improvement in parts for sure, before I'd go through that ordeal.

#13 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:37 PM

Well I have had conflicting stories. One tech said he measured the friction plates from a squawking tranny and new parts, they were almost identical in thickness, which would lead me to believe the plate becomes hardened or burnt and starts slipping. Another said it has worn down significantly.

The truck still drives, but I don't want the tranny to fail outside my warranty becuase of this causing other damage.

#14 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:14 PM

Sometimes a filter replacement with fresh fluid tossed into the pan will do the trick. Ford has all kinds of different transmission fluids out now. According to the service manual for your year vehicle, it takes Mecon SP. I do not know, but Ford now has Mercon LV for the later years / models of vehicles.

Maybe a swap out with this new fluid might do the trick? I would call first to see if there is an interchangeability with these fluids.

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#15 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:13 PM

Ah, good info Karrpilot. I will look into the fluid theory.

#16 Darby

 
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:15 AM

Rockosmith,

This is actually a pretty easy fix... The hub that rides inside the O/D frictions has been redesigned, so when your tech replaces the frictions he should also replace the Intermediate Shaft Assembly. Each repair should also get a new filter, pump adapter seal, feed tubes, updated bulkhead connector, torque converter seal, pan gasket, & fluid. Although Ford has updated many of its fluids to LV, your vehicle still takes SP.

To answer your question on how far into the trans the O/D frictions are.... After pump removal, it's the next assembly removed.

Hope this helps...go easy on your tech, the only feedback we ever get is negative!

#17 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:56 PM

Rockosmith,

This is actually a pretty easy fix... The hub that rides inside the O/D frictions has been redesigned, so when your tech replaces the frictions he should also replace the Intermediate Shaft Assembly. Each repair should also get a new filter, pump adapter seal, feed tubes, updated bulkhead connector, torque converter seal, pan gasket, & fluid. Although Ford has updated many of its fluids to LV, your vehicle still takes SP.

To answer your question on how far into the trans the O/D frictions are.... After pump removal, it's the next assembly removed.

Hope this helps...go easy on your tech, the only feedback we ever get is negative!


The tech can only be as good as the shit parts we are given to replace. This is fords fault. Not the tech, not the dealer's.

#18 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:20 PM

Now the problem will be to fight with Ford to get it fixed. Again. Unless the warranty is still in effect. I ran into a similar issue back in the 1990's. My father's truck blew out the slave cylinder under warranty. After the warranty expired, it blew out again. Both times, the replacement slave cylinder was updated. You think Ford has a problem with slave cylinders?

Had to get the rep involved with it. And even then, still had to pay a portion of the repair bill. To fix a known product problem. Quality is Job 1, right?

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#19 Darby

 
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:55 PM

Wow! Thought I'd help out a person who is having a concern with their vehicle not start a bashing session. At what point does a person assume ownership? I can't think of any other product we buy that comes with the type of warranty our automobiles do... Ford, like any manufacture, is subject to the deficiency of its part suppliers. We can only assume that a person writing in here performs all the recommended & suggested maintenance/repairs to their vehicle and truly has a problem and not trying to polish a turd.

#20 Rockosmith

 
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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

Wow! Thought I'd help out a person who is having a concern with their vehicle not start a bashing session. At what point does a person assume ownership? I can't think of any other product we buy that comes with the type of warranty our automobiles do... Ford, like any manufacture, is subject to the deficiency of its part suppliers. We can only assume that a person writing in here performs all the recommended & suggested maintenance/repairs to their vehicle and truly has a problem and not trying to polish a turd.


Not polishing any turds. As to my ownership, well Ford sells a 100K mile warranty listing almost every item on the truck. I buy said warranty. I do all maintenance as suggested in the manual. Never towed anything, have babied this truck. Transmission friction plates fail 3 times-Once within the 36K bumper to bumper, Once within the 5/60 powertrerain and now once at 92K within the expensive ESP warranty they sold me. Now Ford says 'oh, that noise is ok. It's ok because it will just come back if we fix it." This is where I am at now. The tech is awesome. The dealer is so so as they don't push Ford on any repair even if it's blatantly broken- and Ford Corporate, well they care about saving money and that's that.

I appreciate your technical advice Darby, it's appreciated. I assume the revised intermediate assembly is backwards compatible with my 08' tranny? Problem is Ford says we won't fix it, so I am not sure what to do now. I assume if I go to another dealer, they will get the same response from Ford? My only hope I assume is if they update the TSB to include the new parts you mentioned before my warranty expires?




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