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Rear Main oil leak


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#1 Gary F

 
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Posted 18 August 2005 - 06:19 PM

Looking for some assistance. I'm on my third crankshaft main seal and it continues to leak. The first one replaced at 18-k and it was good for about 5-k and then the bell housing hanger started back up. I was not too concerned about this until I had to take the truck in for the FICM harness recall. So at 27-k the Tech replaced the rear main twice during the same service visit and now 200 miles after It's back.

The Tech has done his homework as-far-as checking for crank end play and inspecting the entire motor with a black light.

Im' going to see this one through and push FMC for a permanent fix without them talking me into a buyback or extended warranty to make me go away.

I just want my truck to stop leaking oil.


Thanks, Gary F
2004/04 F350 SD CC PSD 4x4 Torqshift Auto, Lariat 156'WB Styleside. Med Wedgewood Blue over Arizona Beige with Line-X in the bed. Towing 2006 Heartland Bighorn 3200RL Fiver Truck Pictures

#2 RLF

 
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Posted 18 August 2005 - 06:32 PM

I take it you are 100 % sure the rear main is leaking and not something else. Also the rear main comes with a wear sleeve. The proper tools are used to install the seal (correct). Also, I read somewhere that if the wear sleeve is taken out of the new seal or somehow falls out, it needs to be thrown away, in other words, they don't want the sleeve removed from the seal. A new seal and wear sleeve properly installed should not leak or be a repeat leak.Also, is he using loctite to seal and lock the new sleeve to the crankshaft.

#3 05F250PS owner

 
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Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:05 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by Roger F.:
I take it you are 100 % sure the rear main is leaking and not something else. Also the rear main comes with a wear sleeve. The proper tools are used to install the seal (correct). Also, I read somewhere that if the wear sleeve is taken out of the new seal or somehow falls out, it needs to be thrown away, in other words, they don't want the sleeve removed from the seal. A new seal and wear sleeve properly installed should not leak or be a repeat leak.Also, is he using loctite to seal and lock the new sleeve to the crankshaft.
I have a leak that seems to come from the oblong rubber plug/inspection port located in the bell housing just behind the engine. Although rear main seal could be a problem, what else might it be? Seems the tech involved with the gentleman in the first post in this thread has not found root cause. My truck goes in the shop Tuesday.

#4 tom1863

 
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Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:10 PM

unfortunatly ive never seen a 6.0 that doesnt leak oil, ive had repeated rear main failures and call hotline, they don't seem to know what the problem is sometimes. The other thing is that the bed plate gasket could be leaking, or the cam and crank sensor could be leaking. Another is the rear timing cover, have had plenty of those leak. Thats why i call them Six Leakers.

#5 Gary F

 
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Posted 22 August 2005 - 10:34 AM

Thanks everyone. I've got another appointment for the truck next Monday 8/29. Dealer will obtain involvement from the Ford DSM to assist in the repair. I know that my dealer Tech is doing everything possible to correct this leak. It justs PO's me that 90% of the 6.0's on the road have a wet bell housing, since inception and from what I can tell, 05's & 06's have it as well.

Someone from International or FMC needs to wake up and start taking action for these issues.

Maybe I would feel better if someone can provide evidence that the creator of the oil leak got fired and is now working at a fast food restaurant.

Gary F
2004/04 F350 SD CC PSD 4x4 Torqshift Auto, Lariat 156'WB Styleside. Med Wedgewood Blue over Arizona Beige with Line-X in the bed. Towing 2006 Heartland Bighorn 3200RL Fiver Truck Pictures

#6 Mark Henderson

 
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Posted 22 August 2005 - 12:29 PM

Gary,
Try not putting as much oil in the engine during oil changes. Mine was leaking and I cut back to 1312 quarts instead of 15. Mine was over full with 15 quarts. Now it does not leak. I put 15 back in for a test and it started leaking again. Hope this helps out.

#7 Gary F

 
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Posted 22 August 2005 - 01:27 PM

I tried that sometime ago. I've been changing my own oil since taking delivery of the truck back on 12-31-03.
First three oil changes I added 14 to 15 Qt with no leaks between changes, then someone on another forum suggested this and I adjusted the amount to 13-14 Qt to see if this had an effect, and it didn't.

Does yours leak from the rear main area when you overfill ?

Gary F
2004/04 F350 SD CC PSD 4x4 Torqshift Auto, Lariat 156'WB Styleside. Med Wedgewood Blue over Arizona Beige with Line-X in the bed. Towing 2006 Heartland Bighorn 3200RL Fiver Truck Pictures

#8 Mark Henderson

 
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Posted 23 August 2005 - 11:00 AM

Gary,mine was dripping on the bottom of the bell housing. When I changed my oil the first time I noticed that 15 quarts would bring the oil level up on the wire portion of the dip stick. So I cut the amount I put in down to where the oil level was in the hatch marks on the dip stick. My oil leak stopped. So I stayed with this amount. At 31,000 miles it still is not leaking.

#9 William Green

 
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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:48 PM

The major cause of repeat rear main seal leak is because techs are not checking crankshaft end play and not properly installing the seal kit. I have never had a repeat repair on a 6.0L rear main or front crankshaft seal --use the proper tools ---
William "Grumpy" Green
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#10 KW5413

 
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Posted 23 August 2005 - 03:26 PM

Grumpy...been following your posts for quite some time. If I ever have any issues with my '04 I think I'll come see you...I am on the Dallas / Rockwall county borders.

Hopefully I won't have to...21,000 trouble free miles. If I do I'll let you know in advance and take your Donut order. Ha ha.

Thanks and kudos to you and all the techs here for your help and advise..
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Build Date 10/03 KY Plant

#11 Joseph Card

 
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Posted 24 August 2005 - 01:19 AM

Changed oil tonight and noticed a barley wet bellhousing, after reading this I dont feel bad Ill just run it till it is more noticeable or catches fire whichever comes first.

#12 tom1863

 
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Posted 24 August 2005 - 04:40 PM

ive had a couple come back ---even checking the endplay and using the proper tools properly---sometimes you get a bad seal that probably parts dept. thinks its a frisbee and just throws it up on the shelf or counter. you just don't know how the seal was packaged or handled. The 6.0L is good strong powerplant when its operating properly. I just feel that it wasn't tested thoroughly enough for real world applications.

#13 05F250PS owner

 
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Posted 24 August 2005 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by Grumpy:
The major cause of repeat rear main seal leak is because techs are not checking crankshaft end play and not properly installing the seal kit.  I have never had a repeat repair on a 6.0L rear main or front crankshaft seal --use the proper tools ---
My dealer mech diagnosed leaking main rear seal. He and I both put our fingers in the inspection port (accessed by the oblong rubber plug). There was no standing oil puddle. In fact, it was hard to feel an oil film even though visually one could see oil staining the bell housing by the plug and forming "drops" on the bell housing. Does this sound like the proper diagnosis?

#14 Len Torney

 
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Posted 24 August 2005 - 07:55 PM

It sounds more like turbo pedestal O-rings leaking into the lifter valley, and running down the back the of the engine onto the bellhousing. I have seem ALOT of people claiming to need a new rear main seal, only to find out there was nothing wrong with it. You need to climb up and look into the back of the lifter valley, and see if it's filled with oil. It's not very easy to get a real good look at, but if you get your face right up in there, you'l be able to see it. Bring a flashlight.
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#15 William Green

 
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Posted 25 August 2005 - 06:14 AM

This might not even be a leak, a leak is when it is actually a drip --- sometimes, the assy lube used on the torque converter front alingment hub throws an oil film residue. I would have cleaned this with brake clean, added the dye and drove the heck out of it for about 20 miles to see if there is a leak or not -- if you have a "leak" it will show in this type road test.
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#16 05F250PS owner

 
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Posted 25 August 2005 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by Len Torney:
It sounds more like turbo pedestal O-rings leaking into the lifter valley, and running down the back the of the engine onto the bellhousing. I have seem ALOT of people claiming to need a new rear main seal, only to find out there was nothing wrong with it. You  need to climb up and look into the back of the lifter valley, and see if it's filled with oil. It's not very easy to get a real good look at, but if you get your face right up in there, you'l be able to see it. Bring a flashlight.
Where is the lifter valley? Maybe I should look at the 6.0 bible to find out? The Ford mechanic took a look around with a pen light after he put dye in but makes me wonder if the can actually view the seal with just the rubber plug out of the bell housing? Was he just guessing?

#17 05F250PS owner

 
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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:11 PM

[quote]Originally posted by 05F250PS owner:
quote:
Originally posted by Len Torney:
It sounds more like turbo pedestal O-rings leaking into the lifter valley, and running down the back the of the engine onto the bellhousing. I have seem ALOT of people claiming to need a new rear main seal, only to find out there was nothing wrong with it. You need to climb up and look into the back of the lifter valley, and see if it's filled with oil. It's not very easy to get a real good look at, but if you get your face right up in there, you'l be able to see it. Bring a flashlight.
[/quote]Where is the lifter valley? Maybe I should look at the 6.0 bible to find out? The Ford mechanic took a look around with a pen light after he put dye in but makes me wonder if the can actually view the seal with just the rubber plug out of the bell housing? Was he just guessing? [/QUOTE]The more I think about it I gather you can only see the lifter valley after the transmission has been removed and the rear end of the motor is exposed? I just hate the thought of a mechanic going into invasive repair when it appears there are multiple causes of leaks, etc and the Ford techs have not been informed by Ford.

#18 05F250PS owner

 
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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:17 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by Grumpy:
This might not even be a leak, a leak is when it is actually a drip --- sometimes, the assy lube used on the torque converter front alingment hub throws an oil film residue.  I would have cleaned this with brake clean, added the dye and drove the heck out of it for about 20 miles to see if there is a leak or not -- if you have a "leak" it will show in this type road test.
Interesting. I have about 2,000 miles on the vehicle. I have wiped the bell housing once and it forms droplets but I have not seen anything drop on the driveway. Of course, it may be dropping on the road. The Ford mechanic put dye into the engine and I have been driving 3 days now. Is the dye visible to the eye or does it require a special light? Since I was with the mechanic when he inspected I don't think he followed your recommendation about using brake clean. So I guess I have two questions: 1) do you need a special light to see the dye? and 2) given what I have described does it point out the problem more clearly? I don't have full confidence in this dealer.

#19 Len Torney

 
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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:28 PM

The lifter valley is on TOP of the motor, between the 2 heads. You need to open the hood an look straight down into the middle of the motor, in the back where the turbo sits, which is why you need to climb up there and look with a flashlight.
The dye put into the oil needs a special ultlraviolet light to see it.
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#20 William Green

 
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Posted 28 August 2005 - 08:38 PM

Yes, it takes a "special" light to illuminate the dye ---- a blacklight --- some are in pen type, but most have a bulb that heats and with the use of goggles makes the dye appaear bright. A flashlight or penlight will not show the leak. You can not see the rear main seal unless the transmission is removed. There are too many places for leaks for any of us to tell you where it is without doing the oil leak diagnosis on the truck. Add the dye, drive it hard, hard, hard for at least 20 miles and then test for leaks, unless it is pouring out when you pull in , which you are telling us it is not ---.
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