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00 audi a6 2.8 quattro. (timing)


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#1 stilljackson

 
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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:05 AM

well here we go, i can understand you shaking your head. im a little new to european and german cars.

i got this 2000 audi 2.8 a6, i originally had misfires on cylinder 1,2,3 and crank and cam sensor.

20 psi on fuel pressure.  i should have started with the basics and gone straight to the timing, it makes since that the car would tweek the fuel pressure because of timing off.

replaced fuel filter, and fuel pressure, car ran great for 10 minutes. then back to the shaking misfires and codes.

here is where i am now, did the timing belt, noticed alotta slack on the left bank, the side thats misfiring.

did the timing belt took out the slack. i was told i needed two special tools, cam shaft holder bar, and crank holder {3242}.

i hooked up the timing with the bar, didnt use the crank tool,  slapped it all back togeather.... now i have a misfire on cylinder 1 and 4,crank and cam sensor didnt show up, might have if it ran longer but i cannot risk bending valves.  sounded worse that before, i know its a interference engine, i ran it for no more than 60 seconds, i hope no valves are bent..... is it possible to bend em in 20 seconds?, i think its possible.

i was almost sure the timing was right, used the pully marks on the crank shaft, but noticed when you take it off the sproket you can move it a 8th of an inch depending how you bolt it on, which means i can be off a tooth or maybe more.

on these audi's what am i looking for, as insurence on my timing,  what cylinder should be at top dead center, 1 or 3, because the one on the passenger side, closest to the firewall was at tdc.

and how much does that crank holding tool do? does it just make sure your crank doesnt move? or does it also help you set timing by only going into the crank one way, and one way only.

somebody told me, i might not think the crank moved but its very possible.

so any thing helps as of advice, setting timing, how to check timing, what cylinder at tdc, as well as pictures.

im redoing this job tomorrow, and using both special tools.

and links help as well. thank you for taking your time reading this.

 

also i have 05 passat 1.8 turbo i have to do, it came up 16395, im guessing another TIMING ISSUE right? too advanced it was the scanner told me, my boss just opened a dealership and loves getting these european and german cars. im new to these cars but determined to get the jobs done. also low oil pressure. any links, and pics on this job would help as well

 



#2 stilljackson

 
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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:21 AM

whats are possibilities with code 16395, tensioners, skipped teeth, worn belt? crank and cam sensor?   passat 1.8t 2005

what should they look like when i plug em into a scanner. its been a couple years since i used one, what am i looking for on the scanner to insure theyr working properly? they just bought a genisys scanner. thank you



#3 Saltmine

 
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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:15 PM

Is the "Get A New Car" lamp illuminated on the dash?


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#4 stilljackson

 
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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

yeah, check engine light.  misfires on 1 and 4. before it was 1,2, and 3. as well as crank and cam sensor



#5 Saltmine

 
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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

No. Was the "Get a New Car" lamp illuminated?


Sam Will
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#6 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:37 PM

Just as I thought. It's f'd up...

#7 scottimus

 
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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

How about telling your boss to get you a subscription to alldata or identifix, something with information and timing specs. You are sitting here asking us what cylinder should be at TDC when you are trying to time something.....really man?



#8 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:48 AM

I just don't understand the mentality of doing this job without the special tools and hoping everything will be ok. His boss f'd up up a Honda timing belt, and now there's an Audi that he can't get right. It's about time their shop sublets timing belts.

#9 Saltmine

 
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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:52 PM

Sounds like fun to me! The place where I used to work has to sublet everything except oil changes and tires.


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#10 VW Techguy

 
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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:16 AM

The ECM does not control the fuel pressure on that engine. Fuel pressure should be 3.5 to 4 bar. 51 to 58 psi. It controls the fuel pump relay. Either on or off. Line up the timing mark at the crank with the upper covers off ans see if the cam bar lines up. If not lossen the cam gears. Put the cam bar on. Make sure the crank marks stays spot on with the arrow in the lower cover. Make sure the belt slack is taken up. Torque the cam bolts to 45lbs. Recheck the fuel pressure and make sure you gauge is accurate or the fuel pump may be crapping out. Check voltage drop from the fuel pump to the fuse box and relay. If good the pump may need to be replaced.

#11 Saltmine

 
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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

Sounds like Jackson's boss is one of those guys who get ready to put a timing belt on, and the holes don't line up....so....he grinds 'em out until they fit.

 

We had variable cam timing way back in the olden days, thanks to guys like that. I remember a Chevette coming in on the hook, no start. I should have been suspicious, it came from a Firestone Tire Center.(customer's car). Cranking it over, I noticed a clunking noise from the front of the engine, under the plastic cam belt cover. A quick look inside confirmed my darkest fears. Somebody couldn't get the brand new Gates® timing belt lined up, so, they attacked the cam sprocket with a die grinder. The sprocket bolts each had your garden variety hardware store flat washers under them, and you could see where the cam had been walking back & forth about 45° of cam timing. Some nitwit tried replacing the belt without loosening the tensioner....Oh! The humanity! Of course, the Chevette 1.6 engine is an interference engine, so, all of the valves (or most of them) were bent. Moral of the story? Never let a dim-witted monkey, high school drop-out get his paws on a die grinder. I ended up calling Firestone, and had to replace all of the valves, the camshaft sprocket, and numerous nuts & bolts that were either cross-threaded or stripped out. Fortunately, the customer was not made aware of the scenario playing out in the Firestone shop. Luckily, he didn't see his Chevette slipping off, on a rollback, either. We used to get a lot of good jobs from that Firestone Tire Center, though....

They called up one Friday, and asked if the dealer could send a "Technician" down to their store, to evaluate a problem one of their techs was having with an old 1970 Chevy pickup truck. Yeah, I got sent.

When I got there, the "tech" took me over to a Chevy truck that had seen better days.. Under the hood lurked one of Chevrolet's infamous inline six-cylinder engines, with everything removed from the front of the block. You know that little voice, in the back of your head? The one that tells you not to step on that land mine? I should have listened to it.....It was telling me to run like hell. The Firestone "Technician" had completely destroyed the fiber cam gear with a half-a-dozen assorted pullers, and beat the crap out of the cam with a large hammer. What was left of the cam gear was still stubbornly hanging onto the camshaft.. While he was pulling and beating, the "tech" managed to knock the cam plug out of the back of the block. It fell neatly between the flywheel and the block, locking it firmly. It was apparent, the Firestone "Technician" was attempting to change the timing gears....A job that requires removing the camshaft, since the cam gear is pressed onto the cam. No way, no how  does anyone replace the cam gear on a Chevy six while it's still in the engine.(the same goes for the 2.5 Chevy four-cylinder). Well, after a lot of jumping up & down, screaming, and learning a few new curse words, the customer agreed to have it towed to the dealer, where I pulled the radiator and camshaft, replaced the cam gears and pulled the transmission, replaced the cam plug, and had it running, ready to go, before closing time.....All for a cost that was less than the initial Firestone estimate...


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#12 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:59 PM

I had one like that Salty. It was an 2000 Mazda MPV crank no start. It went to an AAMCO, some independent, another dealer than finally to me. Upon walking to the car after being unfortunate enough to "draw" the RO, I knew instantly why it wouldn't fire. So I opened the hood and I saw, A new IAC motor, MAF sensor, coils, wires, battery, you name it it was new. So I did my inspections. It had spark, compression was good, engine in time, no codes, fuel pressure was good. Removed a spark plug found it was gas soaked. Pulled a fuel sample from my hooked up gauge and let it sit. The sample then turned to a dark gold/brown and had a notorious rotten fuel smell. My recommendation was to remove the old gas, replace with new and replace the spark plugs. The shop that sublet it to us approved the repair. So I hooks up the scan tool, put one end of my gauge into the gas barrel and actuated the fuel pump until it was bone empty. Refilled with good gas, purged the gas lines with the scan tool, replaced spark plugs and the engine started within a half second of cranking. When we told the shop it was done, he wanted us to write up a story on the RO stating that the "bad gas created all the other parts to fail". We said NO. When I initially walked out to get this shit heap the smell of rotten gas was so apparent you could smell it standing outside of the vehicle. But the "technicians" that threw parts and couldn't figure out a very simple problem are the ones left to work on the cars now. Gives you warm and fuzzy feelings doesn't it?

#13 VW Techguy

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:20 AM

Had a Cabrio towed in from an Indy shop. They said it needed an ECM. I checked it. Communicates with the scan tool. Check fuel, all good. Pull a plug wire and an old plug. Has spark. Pull a plug. Hasn't been changed in in 98,000 miles. Should have been replaced at 40 and 80k. Put plugs in it. Took for a test drive. Wrote out the story on the ro, left a note for the indy in the car. If you need help again I'll gladly keep taking your money.

#14 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:29 PM

Trust me, a 13 year old Audi is going to cost more to fix than what it is worth. I would strongly suspect that engine IS an interference engine. No where in your post did you ever mention doing a manual compression test. That should have been the FIRST step. No and or extremely low compression, means you are calling the tow truck. To haul it off to the junkyard. Regardless of what trouble codes are in the system.

 

If your boss has such a hard on for German and European shit piles, tell him to wrench them, and show you how it's done. I bet he will soon change his tune. As the Going Out Of Business and For Sale signs are staked into the earth in front of the building.


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#15 fullsizeblazin

 
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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

Hey does Salty hand make "going out of business" signs a long with his "for sale" signs? He will be pretty busy in the future when dealers start shutting down (muahahahha!!!).

#16 VW Techguy

 
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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:54 AM

5 valves per cylinder. Very very interference engine.

#17 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

If the windows still work, put them all in the down position. This will make it easier for the junk yard to grab it with the wheel loader forks. No sense in breaking a good window.) Then say good bye to it. No more throwing good money after bad at it.

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#18 Saltmine

 
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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:01 AM

I used to make "Going out of Business" signs, but there wasn't much call for them....But, to replace them I make "Opening Soon on this site....Flub-a-Dub Ford, Audi, and Chrysler"


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#19 VW Techguy

 
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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

I miss my old Audi customers. 1 guy gave me tires for my truck to not void his transmission warranty when 2nd gear syncro hub went bad on a B5 S4 with a stage 3 turbo upgrade from the RS4 not sold here. With tuning 410hp on pump and 450 with 100 race gas. ECM had 3 modes. Stock, tuned, and 100 octane tune.

#20 stilljackson

 
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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

So this is where I stand. The cam adjustment was off on the audi. Bent two exhaust valves, and they ordered intake valves. This shop just opened up and expects everything to be smooth. I'm getting 11a hour to work on these german cars. And we lost alldata because they havnt had any income yet. Buying these cars at an auction are a huge gamble but they don't understand that. Theyr hard headed. Give me a break, its my first time on these cars. The audi had slack in the belt and the cam wasn't placed in there right. Whoever worked on the audi broke the a cam tensioner in there and didnt even take oit all the broken pieces of plastic before putting in the old one.The vw, the same problem. But who ever had the car before us tried to pry the cam out with a screw driver and f'd up the head up and the cap, so the cap grinded down the cam. Got a new head I'm putting her on.


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