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'99 Sportage low compression cause


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#1 seagull369

 
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Posted 17 July 2015 - 03:57 PM

Hey guys.

 

I've got a '99 sportage I'm looking at with the 16 valve 2.0 (FE3 Mazda, I believe) engine. Getting a misfire code on cyl #4 and engine is running rough. I checked (dry) compression on that cyl (which is the one closest to firewall) and pressure was around 40psi (the others are around 180). I pumped about 40psi compressed air into that cyl via spark plug hole (made sure all valves were closed and put breaker bar on crank pulley to keep piston from moving) and I can hear air escaping around the hole itself and also out of cylinder #3 hole. I conversely also pumped air into cyl 3, but curiously didn't hear air out of 4. In either test I saw no bubbles in radiator.

 

Does this sound like a head gasket? Owner says there's no history of overheating.

 

In case anyone's wondering, I don't think the leakage I descibed coming from cyl 4 hole when I tested 4 is coming from the tester not sealing properly. The threads on the head feels fine and the plug seat looks visually OK. Also,.when I used the tester on #3, there was no leakage there (I also used tester on cyl 2, just to double check, and no leakage from there either),

 



#2 ok44

 
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Posted 18 July 2015 - 01:10 AM

In most cases a very low number like 40 points to a cylinder head valve problem. Is air hissing back out the intake or exhaust?



#3 seagull369

 
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Posted 18 July 2015 - 01:16 AM

I'm not hearing it out the intake. I don't have the exhaust manifold disconnected so I'm not sure if it's coming out the there or not.  

Why would I be getting air out cyl 3?



#4 Mike N

 
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Posted 18 July 2015 - 07:57 AM

#3 exhaust valve may be open while #4 is shut. You're pumping air into 4 and it's going out the exhaust valve, thru the manifold and backing up into 3. Try putting your ear up to the tailpipe when you blow air into 4 and see if you can hear anything.


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#5 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 18 July 2015 - 11:41 AM

You more than likely have a burnt exhaust valve and or seat in that cylinder. How I found mine in the 2013 F-150 302 was to rip the head off of it, remove both camshafts, turn the head upside down, and fill the exhaust manifold port up with water. It didn't run out fast, but it did come out around the offending valve.

 

That being said, you have to do what I call qualifying the vehicle. Just how much is a 1999 KIA actually worth, with a good engine? Factor in how much it's going to cost parts and labor, and me thinks said vehicle is more of a candidate for the junkyard. As opposed to fixing it.

 

The valve job alone for our 302 was over $1200.00. Not including any gaskets, head bolts, sealers, and related parts...........


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#6 seagull369

 
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Posted 20 July 2015 - 01:04 AM

Many thanks for the replies, guys.

 

I should probably give a little history on this thing. TIming belt was replaced on this thing by previous owner but whoever did it did not tighten the crank pulley enough. Pulley worked its way off. Not off completely but enough for the belt to carve itself thru the timing belt covers and throw timing off enough enough that engine stalled. Owner is my best friend's brother. I read up that the engine wasn't interference-type and told him didn't think any valves were bent. I didn't do a leak-down and regretting that now. Anyway, we bought a belt, h20 pump, pulley, spring, 2 time covers, valve cover gasket. Get everything back togther now find out this low compression thing. He tells me after I did work ecu was giving misfire code on this cyl. before timing belt mishap happened. He replaced coil at the time but it didn't help. I'm wondering, did low compression exist before or is this engine actually interference and a valve got knocked.

 

At this point we're kinda in for a penny in for a pound here. Threw about $300 into this thing already and I can't really tell him with a straight face to junk the car. I'm gonna pull the head and see what's up and report back.

 

Again, I really appreciate the help.



#7 ok44

 
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Posted 24 July 2015 - 11:31 PM

I'm pretty sure this is an interference fit engine. Usually what happens with a timing belt problem is the intake valves get bent a little. This is because the intake valve head is larger than the exhaust so the latter will often clear.

 

On non-interference fit engines it's possible to have damage with those also if the engine is DOHC. If the cams get out of sync due to a belt problem the valves can hit each other rather than the valve smacking the pistons.

 

If valves are bent this can often be noticed by the excessive valve lash on the bent valves. This would require removal of the valve cover of course.

It's usually easier to make sure valves are closed on a cylinder, piston at TDC, crank locked, and compressed air applied. Since the intakes are the ones that usually bend air will hiss back out the intake tract.



#8 seagull369

 
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Posted 05 August 2015 - 01:40 AM

Got the head off. One of the valves on that cyl is damaged (see attached). Probably burnt as Karrpilot predicted. Head gasket in that area was in bad shape, too. I haven't poured liquid down the ports to see if the other valves on that one are sealing properly, but will do tomorrow.

 

 

 

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#9 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 05 August 2015 - 05:50 AM

That damage you should have been able to see with a boroscope. With the 302 i had, the valve looked to be intact, as did the cylinder, when i used our boroscope. I just threw the magic dice at it, and yanked the head. After i had the engine out and on the stand. NO way i was going to blow out my back trying to do this job with the engine in chassis.

 

After i got the head off of it, the only tell tale sign of any issue was one of the exhaust valves in cylinder # 7 was a little different color than the rest of the exhaust valves. So slight, the boroscope didn't pick it up. Granted, i wasn't using the best scope, but it was in focus and gave me a good view of everything else.

 

My water trick found the leak. I never took out the offending valve to figure out if the seat was burnt, the valve, or both. That's the machine shops job, not mine. I just gave them the bad news..............


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#10 seagull369

 
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Posted 06 August 2015 - 01:54 PM

I took the valve off and surpringly its seat looked in very good shape. I swapped in the exhaust valve adjacent to it, did a little lapping and poured gas down it's port and it sealed very well. I'm gonna take a gamble and order a new valve, stem seals and head gasket and see what happens.  I'm a little worried about whether the head is warped in that area and also if the problem will return again.

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#11 Karrpilot

 
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Posted 06 August 2015 - 06:11 PM

You know, going cheap on a repair like that, and you had better get a few of Salt Mine's For Sale signs to put in the windows afterwards. There is a reason a good machine shop charges what they do. Especially the ones that have the latest CNC machines, torque plates, align bores, etc. The machine work alone for the 302 I did was well over $1200.00. Not including gaskets, bolts, sealers, lifters, rocker arms, timing chains, guides, tensioners, rails, etc.

 

Which is why I suggested earlier that a 1999 Kia wasn't worth it. I am not sure any vehicle that vintage would be worth the price of a proper repair, with the exception of an exotic / high performance sports car. But we both know a KIA doesn't fall into either category.

 

Some people need to hear the god's honest truth. Wheather or not they want to believe it is another story......... 


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#12 ok44

 
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Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:24 PM

That's pretty nasty looking. Odds are the valve seat is burnt also from the severity of it. It may be more cost effective to just get used or reman heads because what often happens with high miles is that grinding will take valve faces down to a sharp edge. This means they will not last long if used like that and should be replaced.

 

When you factor in new valve seat(s) and X number of new valves the cost of fixing the head may exceed  the cost of a used or reman.




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