Jump to content



Photo

1992-1995 LTD back in the day question.


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:28 AM

I inherited grand ma's 1995 LTD last year, after her passing. I pretty much have been the only wrench to work on this ride ever since she bought it new. Anyway, here is my question. The IAC valve is a complete bitch to access on this vehicle. For some stupid reason, and just through the model years 1992-1995, Ford put said valve on a passage under the intake manifold, at the base of a throttle body elbow.

 

Accessing this thing requires me to be a contortionist. As well as disconnecting a whole lot of items. My issue here is the vehicle acts as if the IAC valve has frozen due to moisture. Only when the temps outside are at the freezing level, as they have been this past week. When I start up the beast, it feels as if the IAC is stuck at low idle, and won't move. So what I do is hold the throttle open somewhat, until the engine starts to warm up. Then it works just fine. Me thinks then it warms up enough to move and or melts the ice. It acts like it has carburetor ice in it, like some models used to do years ago.

 

Over the years, I have replaced this valve at least 2-3 times. Along with removing and cleaning out the EGR passages under the throttle body elbow. Ford had a TSB on that little issue, and it comes back every few years now and then.

 

Since I don't want to go through this same ordeal again right now, in the cold weather, is there some kind of throttle body cleaner that I can use that will work without too much disassembly? I have a few vacuum hoses I can access that in my theory, can pull the cleaner up out of the can, and perhaps wash down the insides of the IAC, without contaminating the MAF sensor.

 

If it works, great. If not, the ride will have to wait until warmer days........

 

 


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#2 Mike N

 
Mike N

    Staff Member

  • Staff
  • 1,224 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • Interests:Drag racing, Bass guitar.
 

Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:06 PM

WD-40


Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races.
1981 Camaro. 10.30's@130 mph.


#3 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 11 December 2017 - 06:53 AM

Never tried that thru an air intake tract. But it's a good idea. I am not all that motivated right now due to the cold weather, and this basically being a back up vehicle.

 

And besides, a number of family members have used this vehicle in the past as a free loaner. Last time, I got it back with 1K over on the LOF, and 2 quarts down in the oil pan. It can sit.


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#4 fordshadetree

 
fordshadetree

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts
 

Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:17 PM

I still drive a 95 T-bird with this powertrain, it just don't want to die. I beat on it too. What brand of IAC are you using, some aftermarket ones can be crap. With an extension I can get out the IAC quickly. Also, you may want to pull the TB and give it a good cleaning, the butterfly and all. Check the TPS as well, they don't usually fail on the newer ones but who knows.

 

Other problem is the valve stem seals cause the EGR to clog. A weekend and the problem is solved. If you neglect the egr crossover eventually the tube clogs and you have a solid clog that is very difficult to remove and clean. Those tubes rust out too, who knows even if you can get one!

 

Make sure you update the 1-2 accumulator in the trans. Also the MLPS gets flaky, but not so common to fail.

 

You would need a red brick to see any data, but the 95 tbird is actually obd2.



#5 downdrafttube

 
downdrafttube

    Advanced Member

  • Inner Circle Member
  • 112 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ALASKA
  • Interests:wood working, gardening, old movies
 

Posted 03 January 2018 - 01:33 PM

Back in the day I remember varnish would build up at the throttle plate and would sell service . Cleaned the throttle plate with a toothbrush and carb clean . Usually stuck shut in the rest position when cold. But I also remember said not to clean them due to carb clean would remove the Teflon coating causing them to stick.
Ford Master tech
A.S.E. Master cert
MACS cert
A.S.E Parts cert tech

#6 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 03 January 2018 - 06:58 PM

This vehicle has been sitting under a 1/2 foot of snow on it since before Christmas. The temps haven't been above 10 degrees since then. Anyway, the last time I did drive the beast, the idle would not kick up when the engine was cold, as it should have, and I had to throttle it until it warmed up before it would stop dying on me. Then I went and drove it like I stole it, figuring I would blow the carbon out of it.

 

When I came up to the stop lights, suddenly the thing would start to run like crap, idle down, want to die, then idle up, and smooth out perfectly. Next stop light, same thing. As I returned home, the check engine light came on. I thought GOOD! Now I have a direction to go on. My code reader kicked out a front bad oxygen sensor on the passenger side cat. I ordered it up, have it in my possession, and am waiting for a warm day to install said sensor, and clear the code.

 

I don't think a bad oxygen sensor would effect the idle when the engine is cold, because at that point, the engine is in cold loop and not looking at the sensors. Unless, however, a portion of the heater element is shorted, and doing something crazy to the reference voltage..........

 

And perhaps yes, the valve stem seals could be an issue. They have never been changed, and the car is 23 years old. But the tell-tale signs of bad seals are just not there. No huge puff of blue smoke upon cold start up, and I have changed the oil and filter every 3-4 K ever since she bought this car. But I will keep all of this in mind when I ever get back to it.


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#7 fordshadetree

 
fordshadetree

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts
 

Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:09 PM

Was it a slow response code or above adaptive limits? Could have a tiny exhaust leak.



#8 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:25 PM

Stuck lean. Just another warmer weather project.....

No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#9 fordshadetree

 
fordshadetree

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts
 

Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:59 PM

That could cause your drivability issues because it sets the base LTFT(especially pre obd2, who knows how things are calculated). So its probably dumping fuel to compensate.

 

My neighbor drive my T-bird with that powertrain, he said idles smoother than his new BMW. If that is tuned up right it should ride perfect.



#10 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 08 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

Here is what I ran into before. This is an OBD 2 vehicle, complete with the rear oxygen sensors and the in vehicle data link port. However, I don't think everything was activated and linked up until 1996, when the evap system was monitored on those later model vehicles.

 

How I stumbled upon this is as follows. The last time the vehicle was giving me grief, I hooked up our laptop, complete with the Ford IDS program. I tried to run the output commands, and nothing happened. I ticked on the icons for the IAC motor, as well as the EGR, and got no response. Tried ramping up the idle speed, as well as the EGR flow, and no change. Even though the computer screen supposedly gave me that access.

 

A call into my Ford school instructor got me nowhere. He told me I had to use the NGS to do this, even though the program was written for my vehicle with the IDS. I dusted off our NGS, hooked that up, and again, got nowhere. That was when I got seriously pissed off, gave up, and threw the magic diagnostic dice at it. I got a junkyard PCM, installed it, and the car ran like brand new.

 

Now that our cold snap has finally broken, this weekend I will crawl under it, toss in the oxygen sensor, clear the code, and see what happens. If it's still acting up, my next step will be playing with the IDS laptop program, and hoping I can do something with it..........


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#11 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 20 January 2018 - 01:52 PM

An update. The weather warmed up enough for me to crawl under this thing, toss in the oxygen sensor, and clear the code with my cheap Mac code reader. I started the vehicle up, and sure enough, it did the very same thing. Start, run, die, not idle up, and run like crap. So I kept my foot into it, until it warmed up. Then it cleared up, and ran like a new ride.

 

I took it on a good long road test. The tires were flat spotted from sitting for a month, and the brakes were a little rusty as well. A little smack down was in order here. Then I turned on the defroster, and the engine idled up and down normally as the a/c compressor and fan cycled on. So I know the computer does have the ability to drive the IAC valve.

 

I will let the beast cool down, and start it again later in the day. If it's still giving me a pain in the ass. I might just have to drive it in to work and toss the lap top on it after hours. Since all I have is a code reader, I am pretty sure the vehicle computer will need to see a few drive cycles to reset itself. If that's the case, great. I am on to the next project. If not, the beatings will continue until moral improves.)


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#12 fordshadetree

 
fordshadetree

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts
 

Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:07 AM

There is a free program called forscan. It is very close to IDS, it is very legit software. You need a cheap OBD-II dongle (like BAFX) to make it work. If it detects the car, it has most of IDS functionality. It may be able to work thru your VCM interface as well.

 

http://forscan.org/download.html

 

Works great for all old cars (like the 95 Thunderbird, 96 Explorer-  I can diagnose the GEM, set 4x4 parameters).

 

96 Ford didn't set CELs for EVAP issues. I have a stored evap code (can't bleed down fuel tank) in the Exploder and no CEL. I think it has to do with debris in the purge vent.



#13 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:09 PM

Thank you for that info. However, since I do have an IDS to use, I will stick with it. My only issue is I have to use our back up unit, after hours, outside, and with the laptop plugged in. Our battery is just about dead, and the replacement one has not come in yet.(

 

Friday is supposed to be in the 50's. I think I will limp the beast in, hook it up, and see what it spits out. If anything. The last time it did this, the PCM drivers for the IAC valve must have been toasted. Because a junkyard PCM eventually fixed it.

 

I have a gut feeling the very same thing has happened again. But I do want to rule out a ECT and or a IAT sensor reading warm / hot when the engine is actually cold. This could / might cause the issue, with no trouble codes being spit out.

 

We have a genius, really, this is no lie, in our radio department. This guy is super smart. He told me that perhaps Ford has had a printed circuit board / solder joint issue that was never detected in the original PCM's that were built. And it took all this time for the PCM to fail. Which does make sense. Not too many people keep their vehicles 15-20 years. And the few that do, don't bring them back to the dealership to get fixed. This is where I come in.........


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#14 fordshadetree

 
fordshadetree

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts
 

Posted 01 February 2018 - 06:47 PM

The PCM could be bad, especially intermittent. I know in the Tbird it was common to have the injector drivers hang open. There should be tons of PCMs on Ebay and in the pick and pull, or it is certainly repairable.

 

These cars may worth to keep, at least you don't have to tear apart the engine to replace sh$$ty VVT gears or internal waterpump timebombs. Once the little things are straitened out it just runs.

 

If you service the trans, pop in a new 1-2 accumulator and spring if it wasn't done already. The OEM one will fail.



#15 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted 02 February 2018 - 06:49 AM

I guess the thing died out once or twice for my father as the vehicle was warming up, then ran like a brand new car once it did warm up. So when I get the chance, I will fire off the $75.00 for a rebuilt unit to that company, Flag Ship One. The PCMs I saw on E-Bay and the junkyards are just as old and probably have the very same issues I am currently fighting. I am getting sick of working on this beast.

 

Also, when I was in there replacing the bad oxygen sensor, I saw a rot hole in the right side frame rail about the size of my fist, behind the fender skirt. Another issue I have to deal with. Some time in the spring, when I am off snow plow duty........


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.


#16 fordshadetree

 
fordshadetree

    Member

  • Members
  • 19 posts
 

Posted 02 February 2018 - 11:34 AM

Probably right about the second hand ones, its a crapshoot and it is $40-50 anyway.

 

They also like to rot around the  right LCA area because the A/C compressor drips down. Here in NY they inspect for crap like that. I know a welding guy who takes care of that stuff. Also, make sure your MAF is working right, you can check baro pID, should be 159ishHZ if you aren't in the mountains. They need cleaning sometimes. I know it s a PITA but would rather deal with this than the new stuff. A neighbor got rid of a newer explorer because the internal waterpump dumped all the coolant in the engine.



#17 Mike N

 
Mike N

    Staff Member

  • Staff
  • 1,224 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • Interests:Drag racing, Bass guitar.
 

Posted 02 February 2018 - 02:05 PM

Here in NY they inspect for crap like that.

 

What part of NY are you in?


Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races.
1981 Camaro. 10.30's@130 mph.


#18 Karrpilot

 
Karrpilot

    STAFF

  • Staff
  • 6,188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago Zone
  • Interests:Ex Ford Tech 22 years.
 

Posted Yesterday, 02:43 PM

Update: Just installed a PCM from Flag Ship One. Hit the key, and it roared to life. Minus the dying out and surging issues I was having. All fixed. For a grand total of $75.00. No hunting, seeking, and rooting thru a junkyard in hopes of finding another unit. Along with getting a lifetime warranty on said PCM. The car should be in the bone yard before it needs another computer.

 

So now I have a back up ride to use when I down my chick magnet Pontiac for it's upcoming 200 K service.)


No longer working at dealerships. Government employee. Now i get paid to fix Fords.
ASE master tech
Private Pilot High Performance / Complex Rating.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users